home » community » discussion forums

COMMUNITY UPDATE: Please note that as of January 1, 2014 at 1 a.m. EST these forums will no longer be supported. We encourage you to start saving any of the content you would like to keep on your personal device(s). If you have questions regarding our decision to discontinue the forums please see our FAQ

home & garden
The forum has been marked as read.
The topic has been marked as read.
  «   Page 1 of 2   »      New Topic  Back to the Forum
Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Sun. 26 Aug., 2012 at 6:44:24 PM

Just wondering if there is a need to do exterior waterproofing on a house if there are no cracks/water problems?

My house is 13 years old and I've never had any exterior waterproofing done (black tar or waterproof membrane).  Within the next few weeks I will be having my backyard regraded and a permanent deck built.  Should I waterproof the exterior before doing all this, "just in case", or is this not required?  I have no cracks in the walls/basement from settling, but if waterproofing should be done, I'd rather do it before I have the deck built and backyard regraded.

Thoughts/suggestions?

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
If you see no cracks  Actions...
Posted: by tigsw_tigsw on Sun. 26 Aug., 2012 at 6:56:01 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing"
test with lawn hose and see if anything is going through...if not fine, however do make sure when you regrade that the water drains away from the house and does not put excessive pressure against the walls.

The best crack repair is done on the inside of the house anyways if anything ever happened...with modern applications you no longer have to dig outside to repair.




        

               MUSKOKA IS THE NAME NOT THE MUSKOKAS

                                                  see facebook page 

If everyone walked on the right hand side when in a crowd you would not bump into each other.                               

                                         

                    

 █ ♥ █ C a n a d a

                                          

tigsw_tigsw
   Reply  Top
bottom of home is one of the worst  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 12:22:57 AM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing"
places for water damage from all the home repair shows I have seen (and common sense from what my DH just told me)- when they regrade a yard the exposed foundation is always wrapped in a breathable yet watertight film, or some tar gunk is painted on then Tyvac wrapped over that mess.
Just because you cannot see hairline cracks now doesn't mean they aren't there (or will be) Testing with a hose would not show a thing in the basement/ground floor unless you spray for a week and that may not show though. Huh? 
Homes age, concrete gets tiny cracks. It is a fact all home owners will experience at some point. 
It takes months/years for water to find that path of least resistance to get though. 
I would ask the contractor what they do on properly done jobs and I'd also ask a few more for peace of mind. Better now while that part of your home is exposed than down the road when everything is going to cost more- labor and products. 
You say you've never had any exterior waterproofing done- did you buy new or build your home?  I was under the impression homes were wrapped during construction, not after the fact or only if there is water damage (unless you live in the desert).

Basements – the Main Offenders


Waterproofing from the inside  (my guess is this is for older homes and do you really want to go down this road in 20 years?). 
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
   Reply  Top
It is amazing how much you know  Actions...
Posted: by tigsw_tigsw on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 10:16:57 AM
In reply to: green_sleeves "bottom of home is one of the worst"
We are professional contractors and have been doing this work for 35 years.

        

               MUSKOKA IS THE NAME NOT THE MUSKOKAS

                                                  see facebook page 

If everyone walked on the right hand side when in a crowd you would not bump into each other.                               

                                         

                    

 █ ♥ █ C a n a d a

                                          

tigsw_tigsw
   Reply  Top
it is amazing indeed  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 4:41:03 PM
In reply to: tigsw_tigsw "It is amazing how much you know"
that this basic information that professionals do when they expose untreated foundation is something you don't know. The best repairs or preventative measures are made from the outside so you get the best complete foundation seal.
You said  test with lawn hose and see if anything is going through - that is a test for a wall, roof or window leak...not a foundation leak. Unless you dig a ditch around the home and fill it with water and let it sit for a few weeks.
Foundations, just like anything...degrade over time. Just because a 13 year old home isn't leaking today is not a guarantee it won't start in another 10 years.

My DH has been doing this since the late 60ies- back then they rolled hot tar over the outside of the foundation then tack on tar paper before backfilling. Thank goodness there are cleaner more healthy products to use. Professionals move on throughout their careers using the products of the time and learning how to use them properly. 
If the exterior is not watertight, over time moisture permeates the foundation from the outside in and you can see a visible line of moisture on the inside wall, the cement starts to crack then you have a really expensive problem.
Products like 'Rub R Wall' or a similar application is done before the exposed wall is filled with soil.
Information such as this is common knowledge to contractors. There are all types of new protective films and membranes in full view at all home reno stores. You must be aware of them if you are in this business?
If waterproofing isn't done on new builds or small jobs, the 'fill it in, hide the foundation' and let the home-owner deal with future problems years down the road is not very professorial.

Just because I don't work in any particular field doesn't mean I don't know how to how to learn. 
Current building code requires moisture protection to be applied on the outside of the concrete wall.Grin
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
edited Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 @ 4:46:59 PM by green_sleeves
 
 Reply  Top
to the original poster  Actions...
Posted: by tigsw_tigsw on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 5:15:13 PM
In reply to: green_sleeves "it is amazing indeed"
the contractor will tell you the facts.....you will be fine.....smiles

        

               MUSKOKA IS THE NAME NOT THE MUSKOKAS

                                                  see facebook page 

If everyone walked on the right hand side when in a crowd you would not bump into each other.                               

                                         

                    

 █ ♥ █ C a n a d a

                                          

tigsw_tigsw
   Reply  Top
LOL  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 6:30:22 PM
In reply to: tigsw_tigsw "to the original poster"
after all that information that is what you have to say....oh well, I do hope the OP posts what the contractor workers end up doing with waterproofing.  
I take it you don't agree with one word I took the time to post. Oh well again. Another thing I don't like what a lot of contractors do- slide by with bare minimum code. They should go above code.
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
   Reply  Top
Should have been done  Actions...
Posted: by jjaycee on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 2:12:18 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing"

and probably was done well and properly-up to Building Code Standards when the house was built.  By virtue of the fact that you have not had any seepage or downright flooding it must be there and working for you.

If you are having a contractor do the excavating and building the deck he should be applying for a Building permit and the repairs or replacement to the waterproofing will be a requirement for the job to pass any inspections.

 

jjaycee
   Reply  Top
Waterproofing  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 8:05:02 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing"

I bought the house new and I'm fairly certain no exterior waterproofing was done when the house was built because several homeowners have had theirs done since.  My girlfriend lives in a subdivision not too far from me and her home wasn't sealed/waterproofed either (they had it done before the builder placed the sod down).

I agree that something could happen down the road, which is why I asked.  The issue I have is that I live in a freehold townhouse and our backyards are all enclosed.  That being said, I'm in a middle unit so to get to my backyard you have to go through the house.  No one wants to have to haul their stuff through the house to do the excavation in the back *sigh*.  (lesson learned, don't buy a middle unit unless there is exterior access).  Alternately each unit could remove a panel of their fence and the equipment can be brought in that way.   But, two neighbours aren't willing to do this.  Of the 9 contractors I've contacted so far to do the regrading, none mention waterproofing nor digging down to the weeping tiles, and only ONE came back with a regradeing quote and is willing to do the work via house access.   

The water puddles near my house, though none is actually getting into the house. 

I was aware of the permit for the deck, but nothing was mentioned by the Town that any waterproofing would be a requirement.  I'll have to follow up with this more closely now!

Thanks for all replies.

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
Sorry, no advice about waterproofing  Actions...
Posted: by Caipirinha on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 10:05:49 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Waterproofing"
but in a freehold townhouse do you not have a right-of-way access over one or the other of your side neighbours.  I understand not wanting to be a bothersome neighbour but typically the back five feet or so is to grant access to the interior unit's property.  It's not really a matter of those neighbours "wanting" to do this or not.  Usually, if fences are built there are to be access gates at the back fence line allowing you to be able to get to the back of your house.  This is not only for larger jobs like the one you're describing but for everyday things like mowing your lawn.

 

Caipirinha
   Reply  Top
No access  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Tue. 28 Aug., 2012 at 9:05:34 AM
In reply to: Caipirinha "Sorry, no advice about waterproofing"

No, there is no right-of-way access.  There are 4 rows of townhouses and none of us have any gates for access.  My concern is if I "force" them to remove a panel of their fence for access, and the machinery digs up their lawns, I'm now forced to repair their lawn(s) as well.  I don't want to go there.  We either drag our lawnmowers through the house, or have two of them; one for the front, one for the back.

One neighbour a few years ago had her basement waterproofed and there were 5 guys that dug it out manually.  Unforunately I didn't get the contractors name/company and the neighbour has since moved.

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
Have you checked your deed to ensure that  Actions...
Posted: by BoJo on Tue. 28 Aug., 2012 at 6:04:07 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "No access"
you don't have deeded access to your backyard through on or more of the neighbours? DH owns a free hold town home and has right-of-way over the neighbour to the side. It may be that your neighbours are unwilling to change as they've put up fences, but that doesn't mean that they're right.

BoJo
   Reply  Top
nice neighbours....:(  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Mon. 27 Aug., 2012 at 10:34:29 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Waterproofing"
Not. I hope they don't expect favours from you when their time comes, and it will since several owners have had this work done since the complex was built.  Is there anyway you can have this equipment craned over the fence? 
13 years old is still a pretty new home, so whatever codes were back then the contractors will do what is code of 2012.Thumb up 
I would bring this waterproofing up now as I am sure you do not want to have to go though this again or make it someone else's problem when you sell. It is much better to sound like you've done your homework and know 'stuff' than just be the 'little lady who doesn't have a clue'.Wink
I get a lot annoyed when I hear building practices like this and that is where 'leaky condo syndrome' started. From not building up to code or either below or just to pass inspection. Never over code that would make a home last 100+ years. 
 It is expensive to build but at the end of the show if they have the "out of sight, out of mind” mentality, once the house is finished and sold it becomes the homeowner’s problem" it gives them all a bad name.  
Copied from one of my links:
When building or buying a newly constructed home 
ALWAYS insist that contractor use a waterproofing material on the exterior foundation walls.  Although these two products may look very similar, they are VERY DIFFERENT in how they perform. 
Many contractors continue to use dampproofing because once the foundation is backfilled the area is “out of sight, out of mind”, and once the house is finished and sold it becomes the homeowner’s problem if the foundation starts to leak.  The small amount of money you save by not using proper waterproofing when the home is built, can cost you a lot of money to fix when water appears in your basement after one or two years, or even sooner.
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
   Reply  Top
I hear you!  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Tue. 28 Aug., 2012 at 9:12:00 AM
In reply to: green_sleeves "nice neighbours....:("

Yes, nice neighbours huh?  However should anyone's equipment dig up / ruin their lawn(s), I don't also want to be repsonsible for that.  I could have equipment craned over the house, but not the fence, as I'm in a middle unit (4 units to the right of me, 5 to the left)and behind me are a bunch of detached houses.  I'm not even going to ask my neighbour behind me for access because he's a miserable bugger.  I want someone that can do this manually.  Unfortunately it seems no one wants to do manual labour anymore :(.

This was the very first house I purchased, and I've learned a LOT of things about what I should look for and do then next time I decide to buy!

Thanks for the info. 

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
if your neighbours were nice enough  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Tue. 28 Aug., 2012 at 5:20:25 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "I hear you!"
to allow the equipment to be driven over their yards there are products to lay down so the wheels never touch lawns. Plywood works if it is 1/2 " thick.
We had a heavy scissor lift that was driven on wide planks around our building the last time it was painted and there was no damage to the lawn.
Having said all of this and now understanding how your place is built plus the neighbour issue......I really feel for your predicament. 
Hope the machinery they need to use isn't too big to move though your home. Must't be if one guy has agreed to do it. 
Make sure to mention exterior waterproofing so if (Lord forbid) everyone's floor level rooms start leaking it won't be yours.Grin
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
   Reply  Top
*UPDATE*  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Sun. 23 Sep., 2012 at 1:30:47 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "Homeowner's question - exterior waterproofing"

For green_sleeves who asked if I'd post an update ...

My neighbour and I, who both want our the exteriors waterproofed, have finally found someone that was not only reasonable in his pricing (considering that the work required is all manpower and not using equiment), but provided references and has what appears to be the best solution for us.  He will excavate to the footings (weeping tiles), clean the wall and repair any cracks (we don't believe we have any, but who knows for sure), install new weeping tile, roll on Blue Seal (a rubber membrane) and install a new drainage membrane, then backfill.  We will receive a written guarantee and receipt.  The only thing we need to do ourselves is get the permit.  We checked his references (5 of them) and they were all very good. 

The other person we'd considered but a bit more expensive, however I wasn't so keen on their solution which was to excavate, clean the debris, put on a quick-drying epoxy type concrete to fill any cracks, put on a weather-proofing tar that is painted on, nail on plastic wrap over the tar, then backfill. 
My concern with this solution was the quick-drying epoxy type concrete and nailing ... I'm afraid down the road the epoxy may crack (concrete-like epoxy).  And then to nail plastic wrap over the tar?  Wouldn't nailing the wrap cause cracks as well, and/or even create holes for possible water to enter?  I didn't like that at all.

So we'll go with the first guy.  However work won't start until mid to end October, so I may post another update later when the work is done just to let you know how it went.

Thanks green_sleeves for the links you provided.  I'd already done some research but I showed your links to my neighbour who learned a lot from them.

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
I wish I could talk to you  Actions...
Posted: by tigsw_tigsw on Sun. 23 Sep., 2012 at 1:58:50 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "*UPDATE*"
in person.

        

               MUSKOKA IS THE NAME NOT THE MUSKOKAS

                                                  see facebook page 

If everyone walked on the right hand side when in a crowd you would not bump into each other.                               

                                         

                    

 █ ♥ █ C a n a d a

                                          

tigsw_tigsw
   Reply  Top
You can talk to me here  Actions...
Posted: by Pufferbelly on Wed. 26 Sep., 2012 at 7:42:34 PM
In reply to: tigsw_tigsw "I wish I could talk to you"

tigsw, you can talk to me here, I'll listen.

Is there something else I should know or inquire about before waterproofing?

My main reason for posting was whether or not to go through the expense of waterproofing if I have no cracks in my foundation, because I do need my backyard regraded.   After posting here, doing some research, reading the posts, etc, I decided that yes, it would be a good idea even if I don't have cracks now, because down the road I could potentially get some.  Waterproofing the house now makes sense as a preventative measure.  Expensive yes, but I just had my basement finished two years ago and don't want to have to rip down walls and repair from inside should a crack suddenly appear.

Who I decided to go with depended on their applications; one person wanted to tar, install a membrane, and charge extra for any cracks that may need to be sealed (with a cement-like epoxy).  The other was willing to fill any cracks, then roll on Blue Seal (used in man-made ponds), then put on the membrane.  I liked one option over the other, and chose accordingly.

 

Pufferbelly
   Reply  Top
sorry I do not want to talk  Actions...
Posted: by tigsw_tigsw on Wed. 26 Sep., 2012 at 8:00:45 PM
In reply to: Pufferbelly "You can talk to me here"
about it here...I will say  though we have wrapped houses for years...I understand your thinking.

        

               MUSKOKA IS THE NAME NOT THE MUSKOKAS

                                                  see facebook page 

If everyone walked on the right hand side when in a crowd you would not bump into each other.                               

                                         

                    

 █ ♥ █ C a n a d a

                                          

tigsw_tigsw
   Reply  Top
that doesn't help  Actions...
Posted: by green_sleeves on Thu. 27 Sep., 2012 at 7:39:01 PM
In reply to: tigsw_tigsw "sorry I do not want to talk"
if you know something since you are in the business and can give helpful advice that makes sense to sealing a home from the inside out; just not the OP but many here might learn something.  I thought this place was about sharing ideas and different ways of doing tasks.
I myself had never seen anyone or any professionals that do this. They always dig up the sides of the house (somewhat like a dentist fills cavities that will push into the tooth from the outside).
Home reno's show home owners how to seal hairline cracks that start either from the outside of the foundation or inside as their buildings settle.
I am aware of this being done from the interior of the basement but again, have never seen it done. It isn't a secret. There are so many new products out there- does your family use any mentioned in here? 
I am curious about this 'wrapping'- does it prevent mould from growing on the foundation walls or simply seal it up? I am clueless on this product or any application that doesn't involve stopping leaks or cracks from the source.
                                          


                                                                             

No need to explain: your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.Grin


green_sleeves
   Reply  Top
  «   Page 1 of 2   »      New Topic  Back to the Forum
Denotes unread or updated content since your last visit.
Denotes new content since your last visit.
font size »
Powered by
Advertisement

Leave a Reply